Ako-investovať - fórum

Prečo by na ňom malo byť niečo jedinečné?

Tak preco si napisal ze ideme z kopca az teraz a nie uz minule ked je to identicka situacia?

Nič nie je identické, prečo by to malo byť identické?

za tri mesiace ta istiach pravdepodobne velmi krasne vysmeje ... uz ho vidim jak uklada tuto temu do zaloziek

Ved odrazu povedz ze varis z vody

Prečo by som mal variť z vody?

kk

Čo je kk?

kk je ok

cesta dole je pravdepodobna preto, lebo odvolali fork. segwit2x nebude a teda vsetci co nakupovali s vidinou ziskania novych tokenov B2X ktore boli ocenene na 1000$ nedostanu nic.

ale je to taka dvojsecna sprava. fundamentalne je to pre Bitcoin dobre, je to posilnenie dovery. ale ludia nedostanu bonus "dividendu". co je zase spatne .kratkodobo

No ja by som sa bál hlavne toho, že vzhľadom na fakt, že to najskôr na veľkom objeme išlo na nové hígh a potom vo veľkom objeme v krátkom čase kleslo, že sellujú veľké accounty, ktoré tam naraz pošlú veľký order. Pokiaľ viem, tak tieto veľké accounty boli dlho nečinné. Teraz pravdepodobne nechajú naakumulovať bidy po nejaký čas a pošlú ďalšiu dávku.

Ináč úprimne, aký cash flow dokáže generovať bitcoin? Pokiaľ viem tak iba negatívny, lebo platíš minerovi pri každom prevode. Úrokovú sadzbu to nemá žiadnu, jedine že by to malo kvázi "dividendu" ako spomínal Mika pri tých forkoch. Ale to nie je žiadny produktívny cash flow, to nemôžu myslieť vážne, že každý fork generuje cash, tým že vyprodukuje novú cryptomenu, ktorá sa zase nebude na nič využívať a bude mať zase iba negatívny cash flow. To je čiste Ponzi.

Bitcoin teda nie je mena, nie je vhodná na retail business vzhľadom na dlhé čakanie potvrdenia transakcie. A nie je to ani komodita, lebo sa nič nevyužíva. Nebavme sa o blockchaine, ale iba čisto o bitcoine. Má nejakú hodnotu, lebo je zatiaľ prevoditeľná do fiatu a používa sa hlavne na kriminálnu činnosť, daňové úniky atď. To nemôže trvať dlho, kým toto bude tolerované.
Ak bitcoin nebude prevoditeľný do fiatu tak zanikne. Ak zakážu celosvetovo všetky burzy tak skončil.

je trosku zlozite diskutovat na temu Bitcoin, lebo v principe skoro vsetky body ktore si spomenul, su hypotezy, aj ked napises, ze z ohladom na fakt. tak ten fakt presne v tomto pripade je hypoteza. vid bod1.

1. na Bitcoine neexistuju velke ucty v zmysle ako ich pozname z financneho sveta. najvacsi ucet je cold wallet najvacsej burzy na svete a tvori 0.9474%.
2. o ziadnych necinnych accountoch nic neviem, ale viem, ze ak chce niekto exekuovat velke ordre robi to vacsinou cez OTC. vcera bol velky objem obchodov, ale drviva vacsina bola small clip size.
3. minerovi platis za konfirmacie,v principe za energiu, ktoru on vynalozi. fair trade .
4. bitcoin ma urokovu sadzbu
5. bitcoin plni funkciu rezervnej meny v crypto ekonomike. to ci je to mena z definicie neriesim
6. nie je pravdou ze Bitcoin sa vyuziva hlavne na kriminalnu cinnost. naopak, percento vyuzite na kriminalne aktivity ma mensie ako USD. a stale klesa.
7. tendenica ohladom burz je uplne opacna. vid Nasdaq, CME Group, Cryptofacilities, Ladger X and so on.

Akú úrokovú sadzbu má bitcoin?
Tú rezervnú menu si asi nemyslel vážne.

myslel som to vazne, prispevok som editoval a vypadlo mi z toho slovne spojenie v crypto ekonomike.

este pred tym, ako mi zase niekto povie, ze nemam pokoru. tak poviem ze to nemyslim zle, ale nemam cas stravit hodinu vysvetlovanim. Bitcoin ma urokovu sadzbu, a ked ta to zaujima a nemas o tom zatial vedomost, tak si to urcite vyhladas.

a pre tych co hladat nechcu, staci pouzit uplne sedliacku logiku. najdite na svete niekoho, kto vam pozicia bitcoiny za 0% urok na 5 rokov. ak ho nenajdete, Bitcoin ma urokovu sadzbu. ak ho najdete, rovno ho na mna odkazte, poziciam si tolko, kolko mi bude schopny pozicat.

Ja si tipnem, že Bitcoin ešte porastie. Ale celá tá idea a bitcoinová horúčka raz podľa mňa praskne. Koncept virtuálnej meny sa mi páči, ale nie takýto...Tento neobsahuje v sebe fundamenty, podobá sa na Ponzi schému ...žiadna predvídateľnosť...kto by do toho pchal reálny majetok...veď je to čisto špekulatívny koncept.

Mne sa páči koncept o ktorom sa hovorí, že ho raz zavedú. Svetovú menu, ktorá bude zložená z hlavných svetových mien + zlata. Keby sa to stalo, fundamenty by boli jasné...bola by to najlepšia a najbezpečnejšia mena na svete. A vôbec by nemusela byť v papierovej podobe...čiže kludne čisto virtuálna. Zosadila by z trónu dolár, ten by pravdepodobne oslabil...amíci by sa ľahšie zbavili dlhu... každý by bol spokojný.

JUGGLER napísal:Ja si tipnem, že Bitcoin ešte porastie. Ale celá tá idea a bitcoinová horúčka raz podľa mňa praskne. Koncept virtuálnej meny sa mi páči, ale nie takýto...Tento neobsahuje v sebe fundamenty, podobá sa na Ponzi schému ...žiadna predvídateľnosť...kto by do toho pchal reálny majetok...veď je to čisto špekulatívny koncept.

Mne sa páči koncept o ktorom sa hovorí, že ho raz zavedú. Svetovú menu, ktorá bude zložená z hlavných svetových mien + zlata. Keby sa to stalo, fundamenty by boli jasné...bola by to najlepšia a najbezpečnejšia mena na svete. A vôbec by nemusela byť v papierovej podobe...čiže kludne čisto virtuálna. Zosadila by z trónu dolár, ten by pravdepodobne oslabil...amíci by sa ľahšie zbavili dlhu... každý by bol spokojný.

OT: o tom sme sa ucili na vyske, medzinar. menovy fond ma svoju "svetovu" menu, akurat sa v ziadnej krajine neda pouzivat. je kosom 5 mien. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_d ... definition" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mayday, mayday, ...

nechcem pillarovi prihrievat polievocku, ale takychto dychberucich do nebies rastucich grafov som videl uz plno a vsetky vzdy skoncili tak ako nam to nakreslil

Lenze ta spicka moze vyskocit aj na 20k nez to zleti dole.
Ja som sa zopar takych grafov pokusil zobchodovat a poriadne som sa popalil.

Zdá sa že Bitcoin (BTC) nie je "the real one".
Cryptoworld to celé prehodnotil za 2-3 dni a teraz "the real one" bitcoin je ten forkovaný v auguste - Bitcoin Cash (BCH)!
Dúfam, že to nezabudli povedať v CME, aby zalistovali BCH a odlistovali BTC.
Telenovela pokracuje.Budúci týždeň sa forkuje BCH - takže uvidíme čo bude nakoniec "the real one bitcoin".
Graf BCH/BTC - nádhera
P.S. BTC 5600

Myslím,že príchodom štandardizovaného produktu na Bitcoin sa toho pádu dočkáme Martin
veľkosť kontraktu bude 5xhodnota bitcoinu
Minimum Price Fluctuation (Outright: $5.00 per bitcoin = $25.00 per contract)
http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/bitcoin-futures.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kontrakt na CME sa bude setloovat v USD, kdežto kontrakty na Bitmexe sa setluju v BTC.
Ked bude treba, tak na CME budu tym padom cenu manipulovat podobne ako zlato.

Why Interactive Brokers Founder Fears Bitcoin Futures

Bitcoin futures, which Cboe Global Markets and CME Group hope to list later this year, may accomplish what the global financial crisis could not: decimating a slew of trading firms and threatening the stability of Wall Street’s clearing outfits.

No single listed financial product has ever caused such mayhem, but Thomas Peterffy, one of the world’s most successful derivatives traders, is concerned that Bitcoin derivatives will introduce extraordinary volatility into the market that will be difficult to contain. “For the first time, I am extremely scared,” says Peterffy, founder and chairman of Interactive Brokers Group (ticker: IBKR).

JPMorgan Chase’s (JPM) Jamie Dimon and BlackRock’s (BLK) Laurence Fink worry that Bitcoin is a bubble and a money launderer’s best friend. Peterffy has a different concern: He fears that low margin rates will encourage speculation, endangering trading and clearing firms.

Futures margin rates range from 2% to 8%. When an investor’s losses exceed that range, brokers must immediately cover them, then try to collect from the client. This year, Bitcoin has traded from about $708 to almost $7,400. It could go higher, or it could collapse by 70% in a day. It’s hard to analyze the price because Bitcoin has no economic function, unlike commodities such as corn or futures on the Standard & Poor’s 500 index.

Peterffy worries that small trading firms will offer the lowest margin rates to attract business, thus becoming weak links in the market’s defenses against risk, such as that posed by various products that track the CBOE Volatility Index, or VIX. Many investors are betting that the VIX will stay low. That wager could prove catastrophic if volatility suddenly surges, and stocks fall.

“The weaker clearing members charge the least. They don’t have much money to lose anyway. For this reason, most Bitcoin interest will accumulate on the books of weaker clearing members who will all fail in a large move,” Peterffy says.

Peterffy wants the CME (CME) and the Options Clearing Corp., or OCC, to limit clearing members’ liability for peers at $100 million for Bitcoin futures. He also wants to isolate Bitcoin from other financial products, a step he says already has been taken for some volatility products. Interactive Brokers will offer Bitcoin futures trading if those conditions are met, and consider stopping doing business with some clearing firms if they’re not.

CME, Cboe (CBOE), and the OCC wouldn’t comment, other than to say that the risk of Bitcoin futures is manageable.

IN MANY WAYS, Bitcoin futures exemplify the challenges U.S. exchanges face. Once, markets were where companies managed risk or raised capital. Now, equity-oriented exchanges are essentially very fast computer systems, built to appeal to high-speed and quantitative traders. Commodities exchanges like the CME depend on trading volume in their listed products.

Nothing the exchanges have dealt with has caught the public imagination like Bitcoin. So, at a time when banks such as Goldman Sachs Group (GS) are reporting that clients aren’t interested in trading stocks, bonds, and derivatives, exchanges must pursue Bitcoin. Trading fees could be huge if the Commodity Futures Trading Commission allows the Cboe and CME to list Bitcoin futures.

The situation should humble the derivatives industry, which struggles for mainstream acceptance. “Investors are willing to commit millions, tens of millions, and hundreds of millions into Bitcoin,” says Vincent Au, a portfolio manager at hedge fund Gondor Capital, “yet people are scared of options.”

It has been said that Wall Street develops new financial products by throwing ideas against a wall, and trading anything that sticks. Bitcoin futures, if Peterffy is right, could bring down the wall.

Nechapem, preco nariekaju.
Kto chce, nech sa zapoji, kto nechce, zostane out. Simple

Adammd - lebo ak to bude privelka mania, a zapoji sa privela ludi, co do toho naleju realne peniaze z ekonomiky, a potom pride pad kryptomien na nulu/par dolarov, moze to byt rozbuska naozaj velkej krizy podobnej alebo vacsej ako bola 2008/2009.

Pretoze kryptomeny z podstaty nie su hodnota, su to len cisla. ano, mozes to iste namietat o peniazoch typu dolar, euro... ale ich rozsahom a zotrvacnostou, tym ze ich pouzivaju miliardy ludi - denne - maju podstatu a maju obrovsku zotrvacnost. To nejake cisielka typu bitcoin s pohybom 20 percent hore dole denne nemaju a mat nebudu.

20% denna volatilita je velmi velke zovseobecnovanie. Obdobne akobys som povedal o kazdej druhej akcii na burze(tiez blbost, ze). Posledny attack cez vikend BTC obstal viac nez dostojne a vyjde este viac posilneny...
A preco na tom neparticipovat, kriza prijde s/bez BTC tak ci tak...

...mainstream institutional investors are about six to eight months from adopting bitcoin...

Podla mna idealny cas do toho este vstupit(po vikendovom pump and dump altcoinu BCH- bitcoincash je cena BTC -25% all-time high) a vyclenit malu cast svojho portfolia urceneho na rizikove investicie. Lebo ak sa do toho obuju institucie, cena uz bude vysoka...za rok od dnes +50-70% at least

Big money is coming to bitcoin: ex-Fortress executive Novogratz

Top 10 Hedge Funds - Man Group, bude asi prva velka ryba investujuca do BTC

“It’s not part of our investment universe today – it could be. If there is a CME future on bitcoin, it would be.”

Man Group says bitcoin futures would draw it toward cryptocurrencies


...

Teraz ako celostránková inzercia vo WSJ ... tak risk management trochu na inej úrovni v IB ako podaktorí tu. Sa boja, že skončia ako niektorí FX brokeri na CHF evente.

Peterffy ma pravdu, pokiaľ si to neuvedomia u CME a nevytvorí sa separtny clearing na Bitcoin tak IBKR daný produkt nebude ponukať čo je spravne a hlavne bezpečne pre IBKR klientov.

Neponuknu oni, ponuknu ini. Trh vsetko vyriesi. Ale pridaju sa. Tak ako sa prida JP Morgan. Skor ci neskor.

@ bezpecnost. Co je/bolo ''bezpecne'' pre klientov? Akcie CITI? Nechajme to na ludoch, kazdy nech sa rozhodne podla seba. Nie sme deticky, ktore musia byt vodene za rucicku. A kazdy si bude znasat konzekvencie.

No ked uvolnila SNB peg tak mne krachol broker. A to som s tym nemal nic spolocne. GG

A aky to ma suvis? Krachli vsetci brokeri? Nie. Darwin v praxi. Tak IB skonci business a za 5 min ich nahradia ini a lepsie pripraveni.

Suvis tam je taky ze je vsetko previazane. A nechcem doplacat na to, ze niekto vidi ako vozi vo ferari za BTC.

Pete to spominal vyssie: Adammd - lebo ak to bude privelka mania, a zapoji sa privela ludi, co do toho naleju realne peniaze z ekonomiky, a potom pride pad kryptomien na nulu/par dolarov, moze to byt rozbuska naozaj velkej krizy podobnej alebo vacsej ako bola 2008/2009.

To cele je reakcia na clanok od jugglera na ktory si reagoval, ktory zacina: Why Interactive Brokers Founder Fears Bitcoin Futures

Jednoducho ja zdielam tvoj nazor, ak niekto che riskovat svoje peniaze nech sa paci, ale nemam zaujem mu to nepriamo, alebo priamo platit.

V pohode, o tom je diskusia.
Ja som nepriamo zaplatil za pad CITI, resp. celeho trhu. Za to mohol kto? Komu som prispel na Ferrari?

Inak vzdy budes nepriamo platit druhych, minimalne cez dane.

Ano a ked existuje sposob ako to minimalizovat, tak to treba urobit.

moja otazka, trochu off-topic (trochu viac no ...)

ak drzim iba akcie, tak aj keby IB krachol, tak ja tym majitelom vo firme predsa ostavam nie? cize aj keby prislo neviem jake inferno na clearingovu spolocnost a pokrachovalo 90% brokerov alebo rovno cela OCC, tak ja akcionarom stale som a niekto ma ako klienta s mojim portfoliom preberie, nie? (odprostime sa od toho, ze tie akcie by mozno ani hodnotu nemali, keby takato apocalypsa nastala)

Preberie. Vklady sú poistené. Nuž keby IB krachlo to by už muselo byť riadne zle. Horšie ako v 2008.

P.S. Zachytil niekto dianie v ECB z minulého týždňa? Vyzerá to tak, že v kríze ani tých 100 000 € v bankách nebude garantovaných...

The ECB proposed removing “deposit insurance” for bank deposits. Put another way, the ECB wants to make it so that if an EU bank fails, the individuals who keep their savings in the bank lose everything.

In a paper published on the European Central Bank’s Banking Supervision website, the ECB proposed the following:

'covered deposits and claims under investor compensation schemes should be replaced by limited discretionary exemptions to be granted by the competent authority in order to retain a degree of flexibility.'

In legal terms, this means that the ECB wants to do away with deposit insurance entirely, Instead, the ECB proposes that should an EU bank fail, the amount of capital you can access would be both “limited” and at the sole discretion of an authority.

To translate the legalese jargon of the ECB bureaucrats this could mean that the current €100,000 (£85,000) deposit level currently protected in the event of a bail-in may soon be no more.

But worry not fellow savers as the ECB is fully aware of the uproar this may cause so they have been kind enough to propose that:

“…during a transitional period, depositors should have access to an appropriate amount of their covered deposits to cover the cost of living within five working days of a request.”

So that’s a relief, you’ll only need to wait five days for some ‘competent authority’ to deem what is an ‘appropriate amount’ of your own money for you to have access to in order eat, pay bills and get to work.

The above has been taken from an ECB paper published on 8 November 2017 entitled ‘on revisions to the Union crisis management framework’.:

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/ecb/legal/pdf ... f_sign.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No dúfam ,že to poistenie vkladov nezrušia lebo by to bola riadna katastrofa.

Před týdnem mi přišel od IB mail, že zvedají pojištění hotovosti.

Interactive Brokers is pleased to announce the introduction of our Insured Bank Deposit Sweep Program, designed to provide your clients with additional security on the cash held in their brokerage accounts. The Program provides up to $2.5 million of Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) coverage on your clients' cash balances. Combined with existing Securities Investor Protection Corporation (SIPC) coverage of the first $250,000 in your clients' accounts, the available insurance will cover up to $2.75 million. There’s no cost to participate, insured balances receive the same interest as any other free credit balance, and balances are readily available for trading purposes. Additional information, including enrollment instructions, is provided below.

How it Works
Participating clients will have cash balances above $250,000 deposited into interest-bearing accounts at one or more FDIC-insured banks within the Program. If a given a given client’s balance nears the $250,000 FDIC limit at one of these banks, additional cash is deposited at the next approved bank, thereby ensuring clients don't exceed single bank limits. By using multiple banks, the program is able to provide your clients up to $2,500,000 of FDIC insurance in addition to $250,000 SIPC insurance, for total cash insurance of $2,750,000. Cash balances above $2,750,000 remain subject to safeguarding under the SEC's Customer Protection Rule 15c3-3, backed by the firm’s equity capital, which exceeds $6 billion.

Enrollment
Eligible clients include individual accounts without a designated transfer-on-death beneficiary maintaining cash balances in excess of $250,000. These clients can enroll by logging into Account Management, selecting the Settings-> Account Settings -> Configuration -> Bank Insured Deposit Program menu options and then signing the disclosure form. Activation generally takes place overnight.

Dik za info jaja. Tento mail dostali asi len klienti ,ktorých účet je nad 250K, čo mna sa zatiaľ netýka , ale je to super info poistenie na 2,75mil USD (11 bank po 250K). Ak by nebodaj zrušili poistenie v kladov v EU a IBKR umožní aj nám non-us použiť platobne karty naviazané na obchodný účet tak BYE BYE EU banky tie budu služiť len na nevyhnutne mesacne platby(najom,inkaso).